Six defeats in a row have left Dundee rock bottom of the Scottish Premiership after their first quarter of fixtures, with their manager admitting his team are “in trouble”.
Courier Sports writers Eric Nicolson and Ian Roache look back on the making of the Dark Blues’ slide and whether Paul Hartley will be able to reverse it.
Q How far back do we trace this Dundee slump?
Eric Nicolson: I’d probably go back to March and their Scottish Cup defeat to Rangers. Before that Paul Hartley seemed to have the Midas touch. He had two different formations that worked and they were the favourites for many (myself included) going to Ibrox after getting a draw at Celtic with a few reserves in his team a few days before. The hammering they took in the quarter-final knocked the stuffing out of them and, even though new players arrived in the summer, the team has never really had the same swagger since.
Ian Roache: It was when they went top of the table! Think I’m joking? Not at all. It was Friday, August 19, when Hamilton Accies came to Dens and drew 1-1. The Dark Blues were sitting pretty in the league but that result was the second of the long winless streak. There were also signs in that game – for example, Accies had a header cleared off the line in the final minute – that Dundee looked vulnerable.
Q Did Dundee United’s woes (and the ‘Doon Derby’) mask problems at Dens Park?
EN: I don’t know if it masked them. I think most Dundee fans and those of us who watch them regularly knew that beating that Dundee United team was no great achievement. The more significant result was losing at Hamilton when a top six place was at stake.
IR: Maybe in the minds of some fans but we should remember that although they are from the same city – and street – what happens at one club doesn’t greatly affect the running of the other. They are distinct entities that deal with things their own way. Also, I think most Dundee supporters were well aware that the very reason the derby took place was because their side had under-achieved in not reaching the top six.
Q Was pre-season and the League Cup an alarm bell?
EN: The pre-season schedule looked a bit strange to me at the time, certainly. Dundee played Dumbarton and Alloa before they went to Austria for a training camp and then went straight into the Betfred Cup group matches. Hartley wasn’t the only one who took a calculated gamble in treating the cup matches as something between a friendly and a ‘proper’ fixture and it didn’t pay off. The Peterhead defeat and the spat between players and fans was a horrible experience so early in a season.
IR: Using that wonderful commodity called hindsight, alarm bells should have been ringing more loudly at the failure to get out of the group stages of the cup.
Q It doesn’t take a great football brain to see the significance of Dundee selling their two best players does it?
EN: Hemmings and Stewart were both nominated for Scotland’s player of the year. That’s how good they were in the Premiership last season. So, I suppose, you can see how a bottom six team losing two men of that calibre would become a relegation-threatened one without them. I would argue that the loss of the pair has been even more significant than the departure of Armstrong and Mackay-Steven for United in that infamous January transfer window.
IR: I’m not sure I’d agree with Eric on the loss of Hemmings/Stewart being as significant for Dundee as Mackay-Steven/Armstrong was for United but time will tell. That still hangs over Tannadice. At the time of the Dark Blues’ double sale, though, I had sympathy for Hartley because of the lack of time he had to find replacements and the sheer enormity of the task.
Q It’s the biggest mitigation for Paul Hartley, isn’t it?
EN: Yes and no. Yes, because they left after the season had started and Hartley’s options to replace them were limited. No, because however good two of your players are there shouldn’t be such a pronounced drop-off without them.
IR: He, himself, has spoken openly about the goals gap losing those two has left in the team so it has been on the manager’s mind. The club as a whole can’t afford to dwell on that, though, because they don’t have time to navel-gaze. The situation requires immediate improvement.
Q We’re still early in the season but how would you assess the replacements for Kane Hemmings and Greg Stewart and Dundee’s other transfer business?
EN: You can’t write anybody off but it doesn’t look too clever at the moment. A lot of managers looked at El Bakhtaoui but weren’t convinced he had the physical attributes to thrive in the top flight and taking a striker out of the Dutch amateurs is a huge risk by anybody’s standards. So far neither of those signings have come good.
IR: The front players are getting changed around game by game and that is never a good sign. Hartley has said El Bakhtaoui isn’t a number nine and I would agree with that. Teijsse missed a sitter against St Johnstone and it wasn’t a surprise he was dropped for the Thistle game, while Haber looks like he could do with a few bounce games to sharpen up his match fitness. It’s still too early to judge the signings harshly but even that is a problem because time isn’t on the Dark Blues’ side.
Q At what point did Dundee look like a potential relegation team to you?
EN: The second half at McDiarmid Park. The first half was absolutely fine but as soon as they conceded there was a resignation and fragility about them that are tell tale signs of teams heading down.
IR: Just as was the case with United last season, it was a match against Partick. I had hitherto been firmly in the “they’ll still be OK” camp but doubts crept in during the second half at McDiarmid and those doubts became real fears on Wednesday night. Thistle looked the better and hungrier side and that should never be the case in a home game for a Dundee team with so much at stake.
Q Let’s be blunt, are they the worst team in the league at the moment?
EN: They weren’t before Sunday but, as of today, you’d have to say they definitely are. All the other teams in their part of the table are picking up points.
IR: Yes, they are, and when that is the case you begin to look at every match and doubt they can win it. It happened with United and it appears to be the case over the road too. The only cure is to get a victory by any means and hopefully that comes at Hamilton.
Q And let’s be blunt again, can Paul Hartley turn it around?
EN: I certainly hope he gets the chance. Teams have been in worse positions than this and sorted things out. Ross County a couple of season ago springs to mind. If he can dig out a win at Hamilton and get to January without being cut adrift, Hartley will be a better manager for this experience. You can’t escape from the fact that a couple more defeats could be fatal though.
IR: That is a question that he will be asking himself in the aftermath of the Thistle defeat. I think his conclusion will be that he can and he will go into the Accies game desperate to show that. The players need to fight for him, though. A rot has set in and, as it stands right now, things are looking bleak for both him and Dundee.
Stats are against the Dee
Recent history has shown that the completion of the first quarter of Premiership fixtures does not necessarily give an autumn indication of who will be getting relegated in the spring.
However, Dundee, on six points, lag behind most of the teams who have gone on to be relegated in recent years.
Below are the last five teams to finish bottom of the top flight table at the end of the season, and their points total after 11 matches played (Hearts were last in 2013/14 with a 15-point deduction but Hibs accumulated less points).
2015/16 – Dundee United 5
2014/15 St Mirren 8
2013/14 Hibs 14
2012/13 Dundee 4
2011/12 Dunfermline 10
